My very first experience with these mitts resulted in the shock cord snapping out from the leather pull tab on the first glove i pulled out of the shipping bag. Really Stoic? Secondly, i sized up like all the reviews below have suggested but the mitts were still way too small. I ordered XL. One of the mitts I recieved had a size L liner in it while the other had a XL liner!?? Even with the correct liner and mitt combo the mitt was so small it restricted blood flow a bit. Thirdly, they dont seem warm at all (I know, i read the reviews). Definately not what I'd called bomber. I have been snowboarding in a pair of older patagonia expedition gloves for years. They make these Stoic mitts seem like a joke. I got them on SAC for $43, and because of the deal, i would have kept them had the not been defective, screwed up, and sized terribly. they are going back. I absolutely love all my other stoic gear. I am very disappointed with these mitts. oh and I almost forgot... The way the seams are sewn on the tip of the thumb and finger leave a wad of unused and unneeded material that messes with dexterity. More time should have been spent on R&D.