I ordered two of these pair a month ago, February 2009. Upon receiving them, I was stunned. I have about 4 pair of these peAna Zion pants bought in early 2008. The new pair I received are no where near the quality I received in 2008. The seams are cheaper, the thickness of the cloth is half of what my other Zion's are, and the waist cinch has been cheapened. I returned them. The quality of the prAna men's pants has got to improve. The current offering is poor quality compared to the past offerings. I would suggest going back to the drawing board on this prodcut.