I just received these today and at first was quite impressed. However, after wearing them around the house for a bit, I'm not quite sure. These definitely would not qualify as climbing pants--they are a little tight in the upper legs/crotch region, even though the waist is swimming on me. I normally wear a 6-8 (and recently bought a pair of NF shorts in 6 that first great!), and the six in these are quite large.around the waist. They are quite comfortable but would end up as a casual pant and not an outdoor pant. Not sure if I'm okay spending that much on a casual pant that isn't all that comfy. We'll see. Also, the pockets are in a weird place and stick out on the sides.