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The days of skinning or hiking in a sweat-box are long gone when you wear the Marmot Men's Zion Jacket. The water-resistant, breathable, and wind-resistant Polartec Neo Shell fabric delivers the protection of a hard shell with the breathability and mobility of a softshell.
Fully taped seams and water-resistant fabric help protect you from uncertain weather
Highly breathable fabric keeps you from overheating so you're not constantly taking this shell on and off throughout your excursion
Storm hood with laminated brim protects your face and eyes during a sudden storm
Angel-Wing movement provides plenty of unrestricted movement
An elastic drawcord hem and asymmetric cuffs with hook-and-loop adjustments help keep the cold out
Multiple pockets with water-resistant zippers keep your small essentials safe and dry
Awesome active jacket, with a few minor gripes! I have used it mostly for ice and alpine climbing and it hasn't disappointed. It is a little on the heavy side (heavier, according to my scale than what Marmot advertises), but it functions very well. For an in-depth review with lots of pictures, check out http://www.gearthirty.blogspot.com/2012/03/marmot-zion-neoshell-jacket-review.html
King pin or zion? I can't decide and I really don't care
King pin or zion? I can't decide and I really don't care about the price. I would ice climb, hike, camp, EVERYTHING etc..The only thing i wouldn't do with this jacket is take it in the rain, just crazy hard blowing snow. I kinda want the jacket to be comfortable, not like my gore tex pro shell jacket. I really want it to be almost cozy. I want the jacket to be warm but not blazing hot. Anyone!!! please?!?
What I think: I have been wearing this jacket in varying conditions for about 2 months. I bought it for snowboarding. I am not into freestyle/park riding, so many times I buy ski shells for their superior (opinion) technical features. Of course, I was also intrigued by the allure of Polartec’s Neoshell. That said this product is as advertised. You have all of the stretch and comfort of a soft shell that you would expect along with it being very breathable. The protection promised meets expectations. It really does. Completely element proof! In my opinion, Zion is on point! Additionally, if you are viewing the pics online and thinking that it looks pretty rad – it does!
Some notes: Disclaimer: I admittedly am no expert, these are just my opinions on my experiences with the product.
There is a thin layer of insulation, and I mean thin. You will need to layer if it’s going to be really cold out. That said, be careful bc if you throw a down vest on underneath (which I did on a really cold day) expect to be trapping some heat and sacrificing one of the best features of the jacket. In my experience insulated layering garments don’t breathe exceptionally well and this shell is designed to breathe. Too bad there aren’t pit zips to add some airflow in those situations. Also, as I just mentioned, you can layer appropriately with this shell. You need to use thin products designed to pack down. I have been going with the Marmot Zeus vest on REALLY cold days over a capilene shirt or thin base layer as well as a Patagonia Nano Puff jacket for the not so frigid days as I find the Zeus to be warmer and fits more snug to the core. Lastly, just thin base layers work great if the temps are like 5 or so degrees above freezing. Recently, I wore a UA coldgear tactical base layer with a capilene shirt over top when temps were right around freezing all day. This combo worked great, because both have very breathable designs so I wasn’t trapping any heat. I’d highly recommend it. No weight, no excess heat/sweat, and STILL WARM.
How I would improve it: I would add some pit zips just to get some additional air flow right to the core for certain situations (letting off steam on the frigid days you are rockin serious insulation OR for spring riding). I would also add a powder skirt for the consumer looking to wear this shell while riding powder. This problem can be solved fairly easily by wearing layering that has cinch at the waist, but I don’t see why it can’t be added. I’d redesign the hood and front neck area. If you wear a helmet and want to put the hood up it’s virtually impossible. Just too short and you end up with the top of the zipped neck over your face in a really tight fashion.
Just my opinions - and I appreciate everyone else’s on the site - Thanks!
With no physical retailers carrying the Zion in my neck of the
With no physical retailers carrying the Zion in my neck of the woods, I'm trying to determine my best sizing option. I'm 5'10", 165lbs., 35 in waist (though trying to change that...). I have a large Marmot Up Track (could have gone medium there) and prefer the medium ROM jacket. I've already looked at the sizing charts. Any size references to those two jackets would be appreciated.
I've been reading about how awesome neoshell is supposed to be for the past year. As I looked at the different companies who were offering neoshell products, I felt like the one that would work best for me is the Zion jacket. First about the jacket itself. The jacket has an outstanding feature set, the hood works great, the pockets are generous and well thought out. The jacket has a very clean look and feel, with just the right amount of features with nothing you dont need. The jacket fits really well, but it only has room for maybe one small insulating layer, but I like it like that. Depending on the weather, you may not even need a middle layer because it is has a light fleece liner that keeps me pretty warm. Now about the neoshell, it delivers as advertised. It breathes as well as any softshell. It really does. It was almost completely windproof, and waterproof as well. So for me it is a jacket one could wear for almost any condition and be comfortable and dry. I love the colors, and would highly recommend it.
Awesome jacket. I've had it for going on 6 months, and it rocks. Recently, I took it on an overnight snowshoeing hike to a peak in northern Utah. It was after sun down and well below freezing. When going hard on steep uphills, I wore this jacket with only a base layer and undershirt, but when setting up the tent and getting the fire going on the peak, I definitely needed my down sweater underneath. Overall, it has performed very well in wet weather. It sheds water better than my TNF jackets and breathes as well as any of my softshells. The sleeves are a little long and get in the way occasionally, but I give it a full recommendation and a full 5 stars regardless. Kudos, Marmot.
For daily use and skiing, I went with a powershield pro jacket because:
-Neoshell is nice, however it still has a hardshell feel to it -Powershield pro stretches better -I am rarely in the rain -breathability is more important for me while skiing -my Powershield pro jacket has a lofty backing for good insulation (I couldn't find a Neoshell jacket like this)
Honestly though, if I was in more wet conditions (like in the north east coast) with cold rain, I'd probably go with a Neoshell jacket. The Zion would be it.
Seriously, that kishtwar jacket is really junk. They say it breathes well, and I agree!!! There is nothing to that jacket except a sub par VERY thin shell so of course it will breathe. In colder weather, you will freeze to death with it. Now the other thing, it LEAKS water through all the zippers and seams making it extremely pointless to wear. The Zion is awesome. Its warm, and totally windproof and waterproof. I put my whole entire sleeve in a sink full of water for 45 seconds and it did not leak through. Thats waterproof for you. Also, you do not sweat in it even though it has a fleace lining. The neoshell technology really works man!!!
I just got the zion jacket in the mail today. It has a soft fleece lining which is great for cold temps. The powershield pro jacket I was thinking about buying was the Kishtwar by north face-the Kishtwar feels very much like a shell-actually kind of scratchy on the inside IMO. This feels alot better with the fleece-but that extra warmth delegates the jacket to cold weather use. I decided against the kishtwar because it felt so much like a hardshell, and I have a gamma mx and gamma lt- So i asked myself: why get a more breathable shell that feels like a hardshell?
neoshell has a waterproof rating of 10,000 while powershield pro is rated at 3,000.
Powershield pro has a hydrostatic head of 3m, whereas neoshell has one of 10m. Both are waterproof according to american and european standards, however, neoshell is on par with eVent and other hardshell materials, while pro will let in water in a downpour, or areas like your pack straps. Pro will give you about 50% more breathability, and neoshell gives you complete waterproofness (Actual, not just in a lab). Basically, Neoshell is a hardshell waterproof fabric, whereas powershield pro blurs the lines between softshell and hardshell. I use Powershield Pro for my mountaineering shell because waterproofness against rain is unnecessary, but if I was to buy a rain jacket, I would get neoshell.
This jacket would be good for the right person/use. For me I needed more of a resort type jacket at this time. The fit is good for a backcountry jacket. The hood is a little small for a true helmet compatible hood. It didn't fit my large smith helmet. The material seems durable at first glance.
Great jacket, but didn't fit my needs at this time.
Is the hood helmet compatible? We've all heard makers say
Is the hood helmet compatible? We've all heard makers say SURE! while the jacket leaves you looking as stiff as Frankenstein's monster. I'm dubious until I hear otherwise.
I got my Zion today and whilst you can easily pull the hood over a climbing helmet (I've tried a CAMP Armour and Petzl Meteor III) it's too tight to then zip up. A bit strange really - I tiny bit more volume and it would be a good fit. As is - its a bit too tight if you think you will use it a lot with a helmet.
I am dangerously close to buying this jacket, but I think I'm going to hold out for the Westcomb Apoc. It also has Neoshell technology, but the shell fabric appears to be more hardshell-like. I love marmot m1 softshell, but I'm concerned that the fabric will get soaked and hold water -- the neoshell membrane should prevent any water from getting through to me, but it will still be super heavy if it gets soaked. thoughts?
Everything that mateored has said is true. I did not get the Apoc, but got the Kishtwar instead. I returned it after trying it out 1 time. The Zion just feels like a good jacket as soon as you pick it up. The others feel like light garbage bags that cost 250+ dollars. I whore the Zion in the rain and in the snow/slush and no issues. Also i run pretty hot and I have wore the zion in temperatures of 20/30 degrees with just a t-shirt underneath. That to me is pretty awesome. The only other jacket I wanted over the zion is the Arcteryx venta sv but I cant tell how warm it is. Also for the money its not waterproof like the Zion.
My one and only complaint with the zion jacket is that the sleeves run about 1inch longer than other Medium sized jackets. I have tried on MTH, Arcteryx, Northface and the mediums fit like a glove on all. The zion is just too long in the sleeves for me but its ok I guess.
I meant to add: I tested out the Zion this morning walking my dog in a pretty heavy rain for about 30 minutes. The jacket kept me totally dry and the water beaded off the fabric pretty well - although not as much after a half hour as it did initially. I thought it did a good job repelling the water, and I didn't notice that it got any heavier. However, it is not a rain jacket, and I did not buy it to be one. For ski conditions, I'm certain this will keep me completely dry.
I couldn't find either of these two jackets in the store, so I bought both of them by mail order (as well as a Mountain Hardwear Snowpocalypse with Dry.Q fabric). I just sent the Westcomb and MHW jackets back today. Putting the Zion and the Apoc side-by-side, you wouldn't even believe that they are made out of the same fabric. The Zion is like a traditional soft shell, while the Apoc is like a very thin hard shell (more like my Patagonia torrent shell rain jacket). The Apoc is also MUCH thinner and lighter than the Zion, and is un-lined. The Zion has a light fleecy liner. The Apoc is also a trimmer fit. The Apoc would be a better choice for something like ice climbing, where you want a slimmer fit and less weight, or anything where you might want to put it in your pack and travel light. For skiing, I think the Zion is more sensible and more comfortable.
Shawn, the shell fabric they use is the same stuff as is used in the North Face Kishtwar. It's a stretch woven polyester that'll resist water for awhile, but in part to keep the jacket as breathable as possible, the actual fabric isn't that tightly woven, so it wets out reasonably quickly. This jacket is designed for snowsports, not to be a summertime rain jacket. If you want it for crazy wet weather and a lot of spring, fall and summer use, then buy the RAB Stretch Neo jacket.
If you are familiar with the old Cloudveil Serendipity Zion behaves the same. I have yet to test it under a water fall but under the facet water sheets right off with no wet out. If you want a hardshell with neoshell. Rab make a nice one at $365 17oz. The medium I tried felt true to size just a bit long in the sleeves for me. 66 degrees north is releasing one by October - November for around $520. They could not tell me any of the specs but hardshell interpretation also.
I have personally tried on this jacket and the Rab Neo. This jacket is fleece lined & taped in the inside. (not hi-loft) It is cut a bit closer in the body to the to the body compared to the marmot Goretex shells. FYI, in case you want to layer.
Tried out the neoshell finally. Normally I would sweat and this kept me seriously dry. Pretty awesome. No heat build up at all!!! Fits awesome but the sleeves are a tad long. no biggy!
Tried out the neoshell finally. Normally I would sweat and this kept me seriously dry. Pretty awesome. No heat build up at all!!! Fits awesome but the sleeves are a tad long. no biggy!
You'll feel the wind if you're exposed to gusts. I have not yet worn Neoshell, but I've worn my Rab eVent jacket on Mount Washington in 85mph gusts with sustained 60mph winds, and I could feel the chill from the penetrating wind. Yes, it was cold. Neoshell is more permeable than eVent. From a functional perspective, I can't imagine Neoshell being much superior to eVent when used with a hardshell face fabric. The beauty of Neoshell is that it can be mated to a stretchy softshell face fabric.
hob, I bought this jacket about a month ago and can testify to its reliability. Though I have yet to experience wearing it in a full on blizzard at high altitudes, I did have the experience of wearing it while biking on a snowy and windy day. It was incredible on the up hill keeping me warm and sweat free, and on the down, when I was reaching speeds of 30mph with the wind and snow blowing all around me, not once did ever feel the slightest gust of wind or the tiniest drop of water. As of right now I would easily give this jacket 5 stars, but I do feel it a bit preemptive to give my full rating until its been through an entire winter season first.
NeoShell isn't 98% windproof, it's more like 99.8% windproof. The fabric is rated at 2 CFM, which is a stupid measurement system but it's apparently 4 times as much as eVent, so 4 times more air permeable, but not enough to create windchill in blustery conditions. This is what I've read anyway, I haven't actually tried NeoShell yet (soon though).
As far as waterproof-ness goes, it's rated to 10,000mm water column hydrostatic head, which is a fairly sensible standard. It mean the material will not leak under the pressure of 10 metres of water, which is quite a bit. Not as much as Gore-tex or eVent but Polartec say it's more than enough to keep you dry and I tend to agree. As a comparison most "bombproof" tent floors and flies (i.e. bibler bomb shelter) are rated to no more than 10,000mm as well.
Neo shell is supposed to have a high breatheability, and apparently waterproof. It only cuts out 98% of the wind so a trace amount of air permeates the shell. This same property allows it to breathe extremely well. EVENT and Gore active shell are much better comparisons to this new fabric. If you bought the Beta AR you are better off spending your money on a different shell such as a neo shell jacket or softshell. It will give your gear closet more versatility.
So then how does it compare to an alpha sv ot beta ar? Just purchased a beta ar on sale for $269 and was eying an alpha sv for $369. Going to use for hiking 3 maybe 4 season and around town.
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